Jan van der Laan
 ·  20 January 2017  12:29

Meenemen naar Naturalis!

En voor de Oosterburen een Wiedergutmachungschnitzel!

George Sangster
 ·  20 January 2017  13:17

Eerst even grondig in plastic afsluiten en bevriezen. Als het beest inderdaad aan wormen is overleden, dan moeten deze heren erop letten dat ze niet zelf besmet raken.

Max Berlijn
 ·  20 January 2017  13:26, gewijzigd 20 January 2017  13:27

Het is een trieste gebeurtenis maar de foto met de gezichtsuitdrukking van Co en Johan is wel goud waard. Je zou bijna een wedstrijd gaan uitschrijven voor het grappigste (duits gerelateerde) onderschrift....

Jelle Scharringa
 ·  20 January 2017  14:25

Doet me denken aan de foto van "una Paloma Blanca".

O, sorry. Ik denk dat alleen Jan dit begrijpt............

Max Berlijn
 ·  20 January 2017  14:49

Nee hoor....ik ook...:-D, :-D

Edward van IJzendoorn
 ·  20 January 2017  18:08

Uiteindelijk hetzelfde lot als de Oostelijke Zwarte Roodstaart. Ik vrees dat dit lot veel dwaalgasten treft. Verkeerde tijd of verkeerde plaats. Het mechanisme: als 't goed gaat kan zo een nieuwe trekrichting of overwinteringsgebied worden gevonden. 

Tanja Matthies
 ·  21 January 2017  20:52, gewijzigd 21 January 2017  20:54

I dont understand dutch. So I dont understand, what you have written in the comment. But I sure DO remember, that we met there at the Ivy Gull. We left, when you arrived. I explained where the gull was. And I explained that the gull was doing really, really bad. And I asked you to keep away from it and not to scare it! You showed me your "thums up". I am sure, you understood, what I said. And I am absoulutely filled with indignation about your behavior at the gull. it is absolutely inacceptable that you picked up the moribund gull and put it on a top, so you could take a better picture of it!!! How sick must one person be to behave like that? I cannot control your manner in the Netherlands, but I can expect that you respect our behaviors in Germany, when you come here! You showed that you have NO respect for the gull! And I am not willing to accept that. That was definitely the last time I was cooperative with a dutch birder!

Tanja Matthies
 ·  21 January 2017  21:07

Und Herr Uhlhaas, mir ist absolut rätselhaft, wie man Menschen für so ein Foto loben kann... Das ist einfach nur armselig... Diese Trophäenjagd... Ich könnte kotzen, wenn ich mir vorstelle, wie es der sterbenden, verängstigten, sich quälenden Möwe in ihren letzten Minuten ging. Zum Teil konnte ich das ja mit eigenen Augen sehen - aus großer Distanz wohlgemerkt. Ich habe den Anblick nicht lange ertragen können. Aber manche Menschen (hoppla, schon wieder sensationsgeile Fotografen) verlieren jedweden Respekt, wenn sich "so eine Gelegenheit" ergibt... Abartig, abartig...

Tanja Matthies
 ·  21 January 2017  23:25, gewijzigd 22 January 2017  09:07

Ach, Herr Uhlhaas... Sie sind ja drauf... Das Foto sagt doch alles!
Wie kann man dann auch noch so dumm sein und sich in dieser Pose fotografieren lassen und das Bild auch noch online stellen!? Das zeigt doch schon deren Einstellung zu dem Vogel...

Wietze Janse
 ·  21 January 2017  23:28, gewijzigd 21 January 2017  23:29

Tanja, understand you have questions about the situation and your points.

But I have questions as well (not to blame you/others, but hope to open a more constructive discussion), as if I would have found a bird in that condition, I would have checked the bird immediately to see if I could have rescued it by bringing in into a bird sanctuary or help it with a fast and painless death. Why did that not happen and was the bird left to his fate?

So (maybe) better to discuss what can be done in future to prevent situatons like this, see if can can produce some usefull guidelines over here and publish them on the web for future use.

Tanja Matthies
 ·  21 January 2017  23:42, gewijzigd 22 January 2017  00:43

Ok. The night before several german birders and officials discussed if there is a legal way to help the gull. No one had the permission to capture the bird. And also, no bird sanctuary was able to take the bird because of the bird flu. Believe me, we/they did their best! But it is a wild animal. And wild animals die. That's nature! And we should not get involved, if the reason for the bad constitution of the animal is not human-made... 
and it was too late. Even vets said that.
edit: And on Friday morning, right after our update and the information of the real bad constitution, officials were involved again to try to find a legal way to help the bird...

Wietze Janse
 ·  22 January 2017  07:51, gewijzigd 22 January 2017  07:51

Thanks for your reply. Although we all makes mistakes I think all birders involved wanted the best for the birds.

We have here some guidelines how to behave (as unfortunately we do meet situations here like this as well), maybe good to have these translated in English as well and have a paragraph added what to do in a situation like this with dying birds (although every case may differ) as sometimes difficult to decide what is the best.

Tanja Matthies
 ·  22 January 2017  08:26, gewijzigd 22 January 2017  08:27

Sorry, but NO! Not all birders wanted the best for the gull! This gull was grabbed and put on that hill for a picture, when it was still alive. And that is unacceptable and needs to have consequences. Those two pictures are illegally taken and need to be deleted - completely, not only on the internet. And those three Dutch birders involved need to be convicted.

Remco Hofland
 ·  22 January 2017  09:06

Tanja, and others,

People can only be convicted if all the facts are known to the one who passes the sentence, and that is not yet the case. 

Please have some patience until Dutch Birding has figured out what happened. Measures can be taken accordingly, and explained right here.

In the meantime I think it's best that the two photos (of a dying bird, and of the dead bird being handled by two Dutch photographers) remain on the website, so everyone who wants to read the statements and comments can still access them.

Remco Hofland

Chairman Dutch Birding Association

Jaap Denee
 ·  22 January 2017  09:08, gewijzigd 22 January 2017  11:38

Tanja, please do understand that the (photogallery) admin team does take your complaint seriously and please do know that we are not reluctant to remove these pictures. But, removing them now from this internet page will also remove the discussion. Therefor: until our board has completed its investigation and until all witnesses are heard and fit measures are taken, we will chose not to remove the pictures (yet).

EDIT: crossposting with our chairman Remco Hofland

Tanja Matthies
 ·  22 January 2017  09:23

That's fine.

Remco Hofland
 ·  24 January 2017  22:27, gewijzigd 24 January 2017  22:53

As many of you know, on January 20th, 2017 the adult Ivory Gull of Northern Germany that some of you went to see, and others perhaps hoped to still be able to, died of a (most likely untreatable) disease. In any case, the German authorities did not give permission to catch the gull to bring it to a bird recovery center and so its death was inevitable.

Much has been said about birders’ behaviour prior to the gull dying. On behalf of Dutch Birding I collected statements of several German and the three Dutch birders present when the gull died. First I’ll explain the extent of the ‘Dutch Birding rules of conduct’. I’ll then give a chronological overview of what happened. I will discuss what Dutch Birding believes to be inappropriate behaviour. After that I will discuss the measures Dutch Birding will take. And lastly I will give my personal opinion of what happened.

DUTCH BIRDING RULES FOR TWITCHERS

However, I’ll start with the Dutch Birding ‘Gedragsregels’ (‘rules of conduct’) (www.dutchbirding.nl/pagina/1355/gedragsregels_voor_vogelaars). Recently I updated the rules Dutch Birding presses its members to follow when twitching or otherwise viewing a bird. Many of these rules relate to respect for landowners, village inhabitants and fellow birders. However, it goes without saying that the bird’s safety and well-being is of primary concern (therefore this is rule 1). Basically, even though excitement sometimes gets the better of us, common sense should prevail at all times.

Rule 1 states that disturbance to a bird should be avoided / minimized. It also specifically states that photographers should verify whether they are not doing anything that could potentially harm the bird.

Rule 2 forbids the entering of lands for which no prior permission has been obtained.

Rule 3 asks of people to listen to what others have to say regarding the well-being of a bird.

Rule 5 asks of people to tell their fellow-twitchers to stop what they’re doing if their behaviour contradicts rules 1-4.

In the view of Dutch Birding rule 1 was clearly broken here. It seems as though rules 3 and 5 were also violated. Prior permission to enter the field was granted (at least to the persons there to collect the bird).

WHAT HAPPENED

Chronologically, this is what happened:

1. German & Dutch observers were standing on a dyke overlooking a fenced field in which the Ivory Gull was found earlier on 20 January 2017.

2. After the observers witnessed a particularly strong jerking movement of the bird, after which it disappeared, two German birders, on-site to collect the bird for autopsy after it died, told the others (in English) they would walk down alone to check whether the bird had died.

3. They were nevertheless followed into the field by two other German and three Dutch birders.

4. Upon arrival the bird was still (but barely) alive, half hidden under vegetation.

5. After taking a picture of the partly covered bird, the two other German birders left the site to not further disturb the bird; one German conducted several phone calls in order to consult the relevant authorities about how to proceed.

6. A Dutch birder picked up the bird and placed it carefully on an elevated spot in the grass in order to obtain better photographs. One of these photographs is published on Dutch Birding website.

7. From the dyke, the returned German observers meanwhile clearly voiced their negative opinions about the handling of the bird.

8. The bird eventually creeped back into cover.

9. One of the Dutch birders then approached the bird close in order to take photographs with his cell phone.

10. A few minutes later the bird died.

11. The dead bird was picked up and photographed by the Dutch birders. One of these photographs is also published on Dutch Birding website.

12. The German birder collecting the bird asked those present not to publish any of the photographs taken.

INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOUR

While it is understandable that people desire to get the best possible views (and/or photographs) of a (rare) bird, one should observe common sense as to how far one can go (literally and figuratively speaking). In this particular case the bird was clearly dying, and to further aggravate its apparent distress by approaching it closely and handling it for the sake of a better picture is simply appalling.

Equally disturbing is the fact that none present prevented the handling of the distressed bird.

MEASURES AGAINST INDIVIDUALS

Recently, Dutch Birding unfortunately had to act upon a violation of rule 2 (accessing a restricted area, thereby willingly jeopardising chances of an excursion to a rare bird). In that case the culprits were not sent any Rare Bird Alerts for two months.

In the view of Dutch Birding, a Dutch birder clearly broke rule 1 here by handling a distressed bird for his own benefit: to obtain better pictures. It may be that all of those who approached the dying bird (German and Dutch) broke the rule to some extent (for which only the persons responsible for collecting the dead bird have a valuable excuse), but the handling of the bird just for better pictures in our view crosses the line in a major way. Furthermore, when asked to describe what happened in detail, the person who handled the bird lied about it. The other Dutch birders also didn’t come clean, and/or downplayed their actions by stating that ‘others also photographed the bird’.

Dutch Birding has therefore decided to withhold Rare Bird Alerts for two months from the person handling the distressed bird, and one month for the other two. All have been notified that a repeat-offence could lead to their removal from the Dutch Ranking.

Both pictures (one of the distressed bird after it was moved, and one of the dead gull being shown) will remain on this website. If only so that others can respond to this message and are able to reread the thread caused by these actions. Dutch Birding feels both images are strong reminders of how not to behave, and sincerely hopes similar actions will be avoided / aborted in the future.

MY PERSONAL VIEW

I’m not a photographer. I am a twitcher but I also have common sense. It is beyond me why someone would approach a distressed, dying bird for better photographs or views. There are only two reasons why I would approach a bird in that position: to either pick it up and bring it to an animal shelter, or to put it out of its misery.

Remco Hofland
 ·  24 January 2017  22:39

Ik neem aan dat jullie kunnen volgen wat ik hiervoor in het Engels plaatste. Zo niet, zie hieronder voor een samenvatting.

Ik bespreek de actie van de drie Nederlandse vogelaars rondom het overlijden van de Duitse Ivoormeeuw op 20 januari 2017 jl. Van de meeste betrokkenen ter plekke heb ik verklaringen gekregen over wat er gebeurde.

Nadat de vogel, die van een dijk werd gezien en die zich overduidelijk in de laatste uren van z'n leven bevond, in de vegetatie verdween liepen twee Duitsers het veld in om de vogel veilig te stellen voor vogelgrieponderzoek. Twee andere Duitsers en de drie Nederlanders liepen mee. De vogel, sterk verzwakt en hijgend naar adem, bevond zich in een kuiltje half onder het gras. Men nam foto's van c 10m afstand en de twee andere Duitsers spoedden zich terug naar de dijk. De Nederlanders bleven, en een van hen verplaatste de vogel naar bovenop de vegetatie om betere foto's te kunnen maken. Ook maakte hij foto's met z'n mobiele telefoon van zeer nabij. Na enkele minuten overleed de vogel, waarna er meer foto's van werden gemaakt.

Het zeer nabij benaderen en zelfs verplaatsen van een vogel in doodsnood is gedrag dat overduidelijk in strijd is met Dutch Birding Gedragsregel 1 (zie hierboven voor de link). Het bestuur kan er niet bij hoe iemand dat gedrag vertoont, en er dan ook nog over liegt. Het bestuur is dan ook unaniem van mening dat dit handelen dient te worden gesanctioneerd, en wel met uitsluiting van de RBA's voor twee maanden. De twee Nederlandse kompanen die de vogel weliswaar niet hebben verplaatst maar hier ook niet tegen optraden, en eveneens fotografeerden van zeer nabij, krijgen een 'tijdstraf' van 1 maand. Alledrie zijn gewaarschuwd dat recidive van overtreding van de Dutch Birding Gedragsregels kan leiden tot verwijdering van de Nederlandse Ranking.

De beide foto's van de vogel (een voor en een na z'n dood) blijven op de site staan. Zodat dit bericht en de reacties ervoor en erna kunnen worden teruggelezen, maar voornamelijk omdat ze een sterk beeld vormen van de sterk afkeurenswaardige actie van onze medevogelaars.

Wim Wiegant
 ·  26 January 2017  22:58, gewijzigd 28 January 2017  23:42

Ik denk echt dat het verwijderen van de plaatjes beter is.

Al was het maar omdat het 'leerzame' tonen van ongewenste stoute seksuele handelingen, U-tuub filmpjes van puberaal wangedrag, puberpesterij en weet-ik-veel-al-niet-meer nu niet een duidelijke uiting van goede smaak is, maar wel bijdraagt aan het "kijk-mij-eens"-gevoeld van de 'daders'....